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Author Topic: TSMC In bad shape!  (Read 7299 times)
roosterbaby!
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« on: May 27, 2009, 02:29:39 AM »

I'm curious as to why ATI/AMD doesn't use the newly spun off fab for these cards? If anyone knows the answer, do enlighten us, or just me.
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rambaldi
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 11:10:06 AM »

It is just a guess but I don't think they are ready for it with their new fabs and their older fabs are churning out AMD processors? Not sure what sizes they are working with either right now, maybe they can't do the size they need in the format they need. (eg silicon on insulator etc. (no I have no idea what that really means))
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fudo
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 01:29:01 PM »

They will but for 32 / 28nm stuff, it was too late for 40nm as these chips were designed before globalfoundries was even launched Smiley 40nm is tsmc and after than AMD will have its own production
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roosterbaby!
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 06:28:11 AM »

Well that's good to know, thanks Fud  Grin
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davidzo
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 11:20:45 PM »

So hows GFs 40nm bulk doing? As far as i heard its in good shape but as long as i dont know which product that has considerable volume uses it, i cant agree to its shape based upon a few successful testwafers.
For Ontario, AMDs Bobcatx2 + DX11 entrylevel cedar sucessor Fusion product, will AMD use TSMCs proven (although bad) 40nm process and thuslet the Bobcat foils fall into hands of the chinese (oh Taiwanese definitely dont like it to be called chinese but in fact they are)? Or will they use GFs 40nm bulk which they haven't tested with a single product so far?
Does GF even consider manufacturing 40nm bulk in high Volumes because of their late arrival at that Process and their aggressive Plans for ramping up 28nm bulk?
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rambaldi
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 04:18:40 AM »

Looking at the continued horrendous yeilds from TSMC I would hope they are at least considering it
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fudo
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 12:40:32 PM »

28nm AMD GPUs and CPU/GPUs re will go to Globalfoundries on bulk.
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roosterbaby!
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2009, 08:20:43 AM »

I wonder If GF isn't stepping In a little earlier than expected.

The roomer about ATI getting more chips to meet demand makes me wonder?
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davidzo
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 11:42:49 PM »

So Ontario is done at TSMCs? I wonder what they'll do with that CPUdesign of AMDs...
Well, not that there aren't any other companies to make a 40nm bulk combinet CPU+GPU, but at least the GPUpart has already been done at TSMCs by that time, so i wont suspect that they have an extra deal with IBM, Fujitsu or UMCs just for Ontario.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 11:44:42 PM by davidzo » Logged
rambaldi
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2009, 12:36:44 PM »

If i understand correctly what you are saying there davidzo about AMD GPU/CPU single chip solutions, I think they will definately be made at GF, I don't see AMD outsourcing their CPU line that much, probably can't do it under their contract for the x86 license anyway
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davidzo
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« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 12:08:15 PM »

Well, then they will use GFs 40nm Process. Thats because Ontario is still in 40nm (at least thats what AMD is telling us). Not to be confused with Llano (Phenom Fusion) or the later Bulldozer based Fusion products. Ontario is a real Fusion 1chip design without MCM built on 40nm bulk with two bobcat lowpower cores and a lowend DX11 VPU. The thing is called Ontario APU and will fit into the Brazos Platform (APU + Southbridge) and the APU will probably have one or two 64bit DDR3 channels. The Competing product, 32nm Intel Cedartrail will probably feature much higher clockrate and has singlechannel DDR3 interface and DX10.1 GenX Graphics (very much like the X4500).
Brazos is AMDs firstgen Netbook Fusion Platform and as far as i understand it must be pretty close from now. Systemvendors need time for integration (6-10months), so i would not wonder if AMD is already sampling this one in Q1 2010. Maybe thats also why they still went with 40nm since GF has this process up and running. They must be ready with the polished products in H1 2011 to compete with Cedartrail, and this is a massmarket, so u better keep a few tenthousands of them in stock by launchtime or OEMs get angry. Cedartrail will be 32nm HKMG and much smaller, but 40nm bulk still has a price advantage over Intels HKMG, so i'm exited who will finally come out on top price- and performancewise.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 12:19:35 PM by davidzo » Logged
rambaldi
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 12:46:31 PM »

Yeah it does sound interesting.

Seen as GF have their 40nm up and running are their any figures on yeild? And any indication as to why TSMC's is so bad? Thinking of it there are a few things that could be the problem and not all of them would be solvable in future generations which could be a big problem for TSMC and as a result everyone that want to buy a discreet card.
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davidzo
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 04:51:01 PM »

i dont even know if there are any significant volume chips that have been ramped on GloFos 40nm. So far the only information on GFs 40nm i have comes from an incendiary article against TSMC by Charlie Demerjan at Semiaccurate.com: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/11/20/tsmc-rumored-have-killed-their-32nm-node/
As to what the problem is at TSMC, one can only combine what trickled through the news during the last weeks. It seems that 40nm is still at a low yieldfigure below 60% but to make matters worse, TSMC had to fight a qualitycontrol issue and thats mainly why they can't fullfill AMDs needs currently. Charlie wrote about a Chamber misalginment, that went unnoticed for a long time. So while the 40nm node is still in suboptimal state, this accident is the main cause of the shortages. It seems to affect only AMD Cypress chips though, as nvidias entrylevel chips and Juniper probably ran on different tools, that did not have this calibration error.
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/11/16/ati-58xx-parts-delayed-bit-more/
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rambaldi
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2009, 12:01:05 PM »

Wow, that is pretty bad luck for ATI. Who has to foot the bill for the misdone chips? DAAMIT or TSMC?
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technogiant
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 07:44:12 PM »

Call me synical but isn't it quite a coincidence that they will be getting better yield toward the end of Q1 2010...oh thats when Fermi is due to start shipping in quantity....perhaps Nvidia's influence extends further than to just game developers.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 08:22:09 PM by technogiant » Logged
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